Senator Atiku Abubakar Bagudu who is chairman Senate Committee
on Interior, representing Kebbi Central Senatorial district in the
National Assembly, has blamed security lapses at the nation’s
border to lack of policy framework to make Ministry of Interior the
coordinating institution on domestic security.
In this interaction with members of Senate Press Corps, the
lawmaker who bared his mind on several issues boarding on the
internal security of the country, expressed optimism that the
lingering security challenges in Nigeria would soon be a thing of
the past. IGNATIUS OKOROCHA and DAVID ODAMA were there for
Nigerian Pilot. Excerpts
Committee on Interior, what is
your committee doing together
with the Minister of Interior to
ensure that our borders are well
tightened, given the current
security challenges Nigeria is
facing?
WELL, there are
two elements in
internal security
ma n a g emen t
that are unique
in Nigeria and I will say, reflect on
poor institutional arrangement.
The Ministry of Internal Affairs
otherwise known as Interior
ordinarily, is supposed to be the
coordinating agency for internal
security. But in Nigeria, agencies
like the Police, the Customs Service
and the NIS Office play a bigger role
in internal security, unlike what you
have in countries like the US where
you have the Homeland security
into everything. But having said
that, the institutions that are still
within the Ministry of Internal
Affairs are the Nigeria Immigration
Service, Nigeria Prisons Service,
the Nigeria Security and Civil
Defence Corps and to a latter
extent, the Nigeria Fire Service.
They are playing different roles
that reflect the national security,
particularly, people who are in the
Nigeria Immigration Service. They
interact with border communities
and the last time we were on
oversight, we discovered that in
the last three years, the Nigeria
Immigration Service has lost over
400 personnel to the current
security challenges. So, I think the
casualties figure might rank pari
passu with other agencies involved
in internal security. Apart from
their increasing roles in the security
challenges, they are also playing a
very big role in pipeline protection
which is a very significant area that
is affecting the national economic
life. The same thing with Nigeria
Prisons Service, we have had eleven
prison outbreaks in the country in
recent time, most of them related
to the current security challenges.
Again, because of the nature of
the prison officers who are poorly
armed because of what I have saidthe
institutional arrangement, find
themselves facing fire from a very
armed people. So, in a nutshell, the
agencies in the ministry are playing
very great roles in internal security.
But yet, the policy framework that
should make the ministry the
coordinating body for domestic
security is still absent and we are
working towards that.
Most of the agencies in the
Ministry of Internal Affairs
were engaged in the bribe-forjob
allegation, a development
that the Senate mandated your
committee to probe. How far
have you as a committee gone
in this issue, sir?
I moved the motion to investigate
employment practices in many
government agencies because we
have many men and women out
there who feel they are not being
given the chance for employment
No law to empower Interior Ministry
on Domestic Security-Sen. Bagudu
and the pressures are enormous.
The Senate, in its wisdom, set up
a Committee on Establishment to
investigate and the investigation
is going on now. The report is yet
to be tabled, but from what one
read in the submissions made by
different agencies to the public
hearing, it went a long way to
confirm the suggestion that there
might be some irregularities in
the way some employments are
carried out in most government
agencies.
Over the years, there have
been series of programmes
on prison decongestion but
at the end of the day, nothing
much is being done. Now, in
your position as Chairman
of the Senate Committee on
Interior, don’t you think that
was the right way to solving
the problem?
I don’t think so, because the
failure of the attempt to amend
the constitution reflected the
same fear that some people
have with the formation of state
police. Those who spoke against
it noted that the prisons service
is an armed bearing body and by
allowing it, state governments will
start buying arms just as they will
do if the state police is allowed but
beyond that, I don’t think it is right
to say that Nigeria has not done
well with prisons decongestion
because our prison population, per
capital is low and we have to thank
God for that. We just have to pray
that crimes do not go up so that
we have less people in prisons. The
Nigeria prison population is a little
bit under 55,000 and about 38,000
or so are awaiting detainees, so
the convicts’ population is less
than 20,000 which it low. The US
for instance, has over 20 million
people under lock and keys. We
don’t want a situation like that
here, so let the cumulative efforts
reflect the forgiving nature of
our institutions-the church,
the mosque, religious leaders,
individuals well placed in the
society should play mediating roles
in the society that will not lead to
the court system thereby leading
to imprisonment. The higher
number of people in prisons, like
I said, is awaiting trial detained.
That is a structural problem,
because in Nigeria, once somebody
is taken to a court, and the court
orders that he be detained in
prison, if he is unable to meet his
bail condition, if the prosecutors
are unable to prosecute him on
time, he will remain in prison
until such a time that it is decided.
And then, we have the problem of
completion of investigation. Police
officers in Nigeria are responsible
for investigation in most of the
cases; we have little to do like
the EFCC and ICPC. The bulk of
the cases are investigated by the
police, sometimes, they police
will tell you that they have their
own challenges, sometimes in
the midst of an investigation, the
police officer is being transferred,
sometimes, the investigation is lost
and sometimes, the police officer
is not available and unfortunately,
the poor person who is in
detention remains there longer
than necessary. But the National
Assembly has been addressing
this issue and amendment has
been put in place. The Nigeria
Prisons Reform Bill that has been
passed, makes it mandatory for the
Comptroller General of Prisons to
provide information on a monthly
basis to all the Chief judges of the
36 states and the FCT on all the
awaiting trials and that all those
who have stayed in prisons longer
than the sentences for the offences
that they would have been jailed are
entitled to be released.
What is the agency responsible
for internal security and safety
in the Fire Service doing?
Because the facilities in that
sector are nothing to write
home about and these have
always been blamed on poor
budgetary allocation.
I think more than budgetary
issue, there was a fundamental
issue in 2007 where a policy was
brought in to say that the Federal
Fire Service should be a regulatory
agency, that it should regulate the
creation of fire services by state and
local governments. The separation
of power and incidences of fire
and emergency services make it
very untenable for us to have very
dominant federal fire service. So
I think, within the framework
of the Nigeria Fire Service being
a regulator, there is an ample
opportunity to help in the creation
of fire services across the country
by states and local government
and that will be more effective for
the need of the nation. What we
did during our oversight in the last
three weeks ago, at the fire service,
we challenged the management of
the fire service to pay attention to
the development of that regulatory
agency.
Back to the issue of the
Nigeria Prisons, how do you
think the problems confronting
it can be resolved?
First, you address it by giving
more arms to the Prisons Service
and two; you recognise the fact
that Prisons Service is an essential
element of the security apparatus.
It is not secondary to any other
institution.
It’s been observed that most of
our internal security problems
have been as a result of activities
of foreigners, some of who migrate
illegally to Nigeria due largely to
its porous borders, what is your
committee doing to tackle this
issue.
My take on the view that
foreigners are the cause of security
challenges in our country is a little
bit, incorrect. But what happens is
that whenever you have security
challenge and you have free entry
and exit of foreigners, particularly
from neighboring countries, it
might complicate your ability to
deal with the security challenge.
Yet, our border with the Cameroon
in the North East, has always been
a problem because Chad which
apart from Lake Chad Basin, we
don’t have any land border with,
has been at war for over the last
50 years. Thereby, the Chadians
coming to the North East are
well armed and they know how
to use fire arms and beginning
from the 1980s, there have always
been allegations that there are
criminal activities, particularly the
robberies in the North East, has
a lot of Chadians involvement in
it. But having said that, coming
back to your question, as to what
we can do as a nation to arrest
this, I think there are two issues
and complications. First, we are
members of the ECOWAS group
of nations and we are committed
in the free entry and exit by the
ECOWAS nationals and therefore
even if we seal our borders, we
can’t stop members of ECOWAS
countries from coming in and out
of Nigeria. Secondly, it will be a very
herculean undertaking to think of
building up or fencing 4,000 miles
-long border. The good thing is that
technology has revolutionalised
the way things are done. The
cost of monitoring individuals is
coming down, monitoring the an
entire area is coming down, so I
believe that with increase use of
modern technologies and efficient
deployment of personnel, we can
achieve more with less spending.
Apart from being a former
lecturer at the University
of Sokoto, you were the last
Senate Committee Chairman
on Education, with your
experience in the education
field, what do you think is the
way out in the face of on-going
strike by ASUU over certain
disagreement with the Federal
Government?
I think the best thing is for
the all parties at all times to be
knowledgeable in their approach.
About two years ago, the president,
I am not holding brief for him, he
held a Presidential Summit on
Education and he was there all
the time for about 48 hours. He
is an academic, the Minister of
Education is an academic and I
am sure that, that makes it a bit
easy for them personality wise,
to support any measure that can
reposition the Nigeria educational
sector. The two committees of the
Senator Atiku Abubakar Bagudu who is chairman Senate Committee
on Interior, representing Kebbi Central Senatorial district in the
National Assembly, has blamed security lapses at the nation’s
border to lack of policy framework to make Ministry of Interior the
coordinating institution on domestic security.
In this interaction with members of Senate Press Corps, the
lawmaker who bared his mind on several issues boarding on the
internal security of the country, expressed optimism that the
lingering security challenges in Nigeria would soon be a thing of
the past. IGNATIUS OKOROCHA and DAVID ODAMA were there for
Nigerian Pilot. Excerpts:
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